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The USA is not a Fascist Regime

by DominicGee @ 2008-05-27 - 17:13:22

I may be a pedant, but I am getting tired of people, including those who really should know better, misusing the word Fascist. Yes, it's an affective debating tool to label your opponent such a person, but in my view (and it's open to debate) Fascists and Fascism are NOT synonomous with Bushism or Thatcherism etc etc as keeps on happening.

First of all, I'd like to explain that in my view all types of government is measured by their power/control. So, for example a Right Wing government maintains control through money. It will operate a free market economy, have a small or non-existent welfare infrastructure and has a policy of little or no public spending. Because they operate a free market economy, they are called Capitalist as they are only interested in the control of money - CAPITAL. The only control is over how people make their money. In all other aspects of society they have no interest. In this sense the USA is Right Wing.

A Left Wing Government is maintains power by controlling society. Hence the Socialist label. Socialist governments are characterized by high taxes, public spending, a controled economy and industry, a welfare state, public services and more legislation than you can shake a stick at.

In my opinion, Nationalism is a characteristic of a country and it's style of leadership, not necessarily it being Right Wing, for example:
Soviet Russia maintained rigourous control over every aspect of society, government spending was high and all markets and industries were controlled. Communism is often regarded as Left Wing as possible and quite rightly. However, Soviet Russia was also violently nationalistic, imperial and militaristic, things usually expected to be at home on the Right.
The Nazis (short for National Socialist German Workers Party) were also violently nationalistic, racist, imperialistic and militaristic - but was it a Right Wing government? The Nazis also kept close control over German society spending a huge amount of public money on roads, public transport, producing the VolksWagen (a very Socialist notion) and deciding exactly what is taught in schools, who to and what people do in their spare time. In my opinion this makes them much more a Left Wing government then a right wing one.

It is for this reason that people often say that the political spectrum is not a horizontal plane but a circle - both the Nazis and Societs share so much in common that they are not in fact opposite but twins. Another example of this would be the answer to the question 'Is Hate the opposite of Love?' The answer is No, because they share more in common with each other than Indifference for example. And we all know that the Nazis and Soviets absolutely hated each other.

Fascism was pretty much invented by Mussolini and was at the time very specific to Italy. In my view Fascism can be described as a type of National Socialism. Yes it was imperial and nationalistic but was more Socialist than anything else as the Fascist party, far from withdrawing government control as a Right Wing Capitalist would do, set about trying to reform his country from the top down. It may be symptomatic of a Capitalist society to have a Middle Class, but CREATING one like Hitler and Mussolini did is the activity of a Socialist.

So, back to the USA. The USA is a Capitalist country. It has a free market, very little welfare, is pro big business and is more interested in CAPITAL than anything social. It's massive spending on the military, it's harsh judicial system and anti-immigration laws are not features of Capitalism but is reflective of its STYLE of government, not its FORM.

Benjamin Disraeli once said (paraphrased) "The British Empire does not have friends, only interests." This sums up the USA. It's militarism and religio-political style does not mean it is Fascist, it is merely trying to control CAPITAL - Oil, the military industry etc etc.

Many of you will disagree, and are welcome to, but I hope you get my point.


 
 

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semafusemafu pro
2008-05-27 @ 19:21

i agree with a lot of this. ppl who throw the word fascist around, are usually quite ignorant.

In fact the USA in many ways is the opposite of fascist. Citizens have a great deal of liberty, for example, the right to bear arms and free speech. The US has a higher level of free speech than any European country including the UK. Additionally states and cities in the US have a lot more autonomy and power than in the UK.

However I’m not sure that I would agree that the US has low welfare spending, for example in 2007 the US government spent £336 Billion just on Medicare.

DominicGeeDominicGee [Member]
2008-05-28 @ 08:55

To be perfectly honest I am not aware of the figures relating to the US welfare program, I am going by hearsay. However, I can say that the US has a much stronger, um, Work Ethic than here for example where it is relativly easy to claim and for quite a long time.
At the moment the US govt must be going through some sort of transition in terms of national health, but I'm not going to pretend to know the details.
I totally agree with you about the freedom aspect, despite its major flaws, the US is still in practice one of the most free nations on Earth where Free Speech and the right to do what you like and to bring up your children how you like is still one's own decision. I know people who want to emigrate to the US for these reasons.

Who has been calling the USA fascist? Interesting post with quite a lot I'm in agreement with...also interesting is Semafu's response about Medicare...where does all that money go because there are millions of Americans with no medical insurance and they pay through the nose for everything to do with their health? I know this because I have relatives in the USA who, if their medical insurance runs out while between jobs, are in serious trouble as both parties need medicines to control various physical problems....

DominicGeeDominicGee [Member]
2008-05-28 @ 08:58

http://random-veryrandom.blog.co.uk/2008/05/26/so-according-to-this-guy-4225829

saw this and had to write something. He's based his whole argument around a quite dubious definition of Fascism.

Ah, I see...it was a descriptive use of the word without realising what it was implying...your post did clarify its meaning...hope he read it...:)

I've just put a comment up and think I forgot to press Send because it's disappeared...LOL...now I understand why you posted this on your blog...we do throw around political descriptions a heck of a lot with poor understanding of what each stands for...I find the worse is the use of the description 'communist' for totalitarian states, which is really insulting to the actual intentions of true communism...hmmm...don't think I'll ever get round that one as the West has thoroughly discredited communism by continually referring to the Eastern European countries and China as communist rather than being under the thumb of a totalitarian regimes...too late now I think to undo the damage...

DominicGeeDominicGee [Member]
2008-05-28 @ 16:51

Exactly, I feel quite sorry in a way for all those advocates of Marx, as when it comes to good examples of Communism there aren't any really. Which is why I say it's inherently flawed - the idea is good but you can't force this upon people (which is sort of required really) and I don't believe in giving the government that much power as it will never behave itself.

Well the idea that government from the bottom up sounds very just, but the problem is human beings at the bottom have large demands whereas human beings at the top of the heap already have many of their demands met...it would mean they would have to reduce their demands while those at the bottom would have to come up to meet them in the middle and not seek to have what those at the top have...unfortunately there are many more at the bottom than there are at the top so I cannot really see how it can work in the end...and natural greed also sets in...you get a bit more and your standard of living increases and you want a bit more and so on...if I believed that human beings were able to cooperate I would have thought communism would have been a very good system to bring about a fair system for all, but, judging by the world today, human beings are so damned competitive, collective cooperation is still a dream...you would think in a global village, every country would see the advantages of mutual cooperation, but with those at the top of the pecking order hanging onto what they've got and unwilling to share the earth's resources, it's the same problem that true communism has of getting off the ground...those at the bottom just cannot get the leverage to even meet somewhere near the middle those at the top...I suppose I'm wishing for a maturity in human beings that simply isn't there yet...if it ever will be...

DominicGeeDominicGee [Member]
2008-05-29 @ 08:51

It's not all bad, the concept does exist a people at peace with itself should never do anything that harms itself - that's why no two democracies have ever gone to war.

Too soon to tell...democracy is still very young in our world...with the European Union expanding rapidly, who can tell whether one country or several will side with one side or another in the event of a conflict...Like your optimism...'a people at peace with itself should do anything to harm itself'...tell that to Blair when he took us into the Iraq war and ignored the hundreds of thousands of people who took to the streets and signed petitions opposing such a decision...he did irreparable harm to the country...and there's always the matter of who defines a 'war'...the battle between Britain and Ireland was a 'war' between two democracies...just never declared officially as a war, but both side considered it to be so...

Sorry typos...missed out the 'never' do anything to harm itself' in my quote...not sure you can even say that...a people cannot be defined as 'itself' at least I don't think it can...LOL...

DominicGeeDominicGee [Member]
2008-05-29 @ 10:44

I know, was a grammer error there. What I mean is (and I believe) that in a true democracy the people will not advocate anything that is self-harming (provided they are well-informed, literacy is a basic pre-condition of democracy) which is why two democracies have never gone to war - Iraq wasn't a democracy so doesn't count and in Ireland the people were never asked what they wanted either, it was merely a struggle for power - did we ever find out what the Irish people wanted or just the people who claimed to represent them?

Ireland was more a struggle for liberation than a power struggle I think...the creation of Northern Ireland by us was an aberration for which we and the Irish paid a huge price...getting rid of the original Scottish Protestants and parking them in Northern Ireland was similar to what happened in Palestine with the Jewish people being given part of its land without so much as a by your leave...

DominicGeeDominicGee [Member]
2008-05-29 @ 10:38

true enough, but then again we don't live in a democracy - i do think it is significant that two 'democracies' have never gone to war, wheras dictatorships spend most of their time doing just that, you get my point though. "A country at peace with itsel..." is a quote from Thomas Paine - American pamphleteer circa the Civil War.

Yes, I did write you should have said 'country' not 'people' but thought I was being pedantic so took it out...LOL...you ignored my reference to Ireland's 'war' with Britain...and to all intents and purposes, Britain is a democracy even though 51 per cent don't vote for one party....Ancient Greece's concept of a democracy was seriously flawed in that it didn't permit women to vote nor its slaves. Many people refer back to this concept of democracy as the ideal but it wasn't...

DominicGeeDominicGee [Member]
2008-05-29 @ 16:09

truth be told, just as i said that there are no good examples of Marxism, there have been no democracies to be proud of either, and that's been arounf (in theory) for much longer.

I guess in the end what the people will accept is the criterion for all governments...if sufficient numbers object, the government falls, but we live in a world of 'isms' with our consuming need to categorize everything...none are definably one or the other as you pointed out...it makes it very confusing then when attempting to discuss politics in our modern world...LOL hence the continual misuse of words like fascist, communist, democrat etc...not sure whether we'll ever transcend 'isms' unfortunately...seem to be here to stay...

"Exactly, I feel quite sorry in a way for all those advocates of Marx, as when it comes to good examples of Communism there aren't any really".

Ehh, we do alright.

DominicGeeDominicGee [Member]
2008-05-29 @ 08:52

Ha ha, I did n't mean to be patronising, but I find Marxism is mostly theory, as in practice there's nothing there that anybody would willingly advocate.

Naw, I'm just kiddin' with ya. :)

boredrichboredrich [Member]
2008-05-28 @ 10:19

it always reminds me of rik mayll out of the young ones he was always on about fascists! and he didnt know what he was talking about words get used all out of context these days because so many people just talk trash!

DominicGeeDominicGee [Member]
2008-05-29 @ 10:46

Exactly. I think there's only been two countries that have actually been Fascist - one is Italy and the other Franco's Spain, but I don't know too much about the latter.

deleted user [Visitor]

2008-06-16 @ 01:09

The USA is not a Fascist Regime - oh yes it is! oh no it isn't ! oh yes it is !oh yes it is! oh no it isn't ! oh yes it is !oh yes it is! oh no it isn't ! oh yes it is !oh yes it is! oh no it isn't ! oh yes it is !oh yes it is! oh no it isn't ! oh yes it is !

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